Crime: There is more to it than pulling the trigger.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer nor am I an expert in firearms or self-defense. The following is just my opinion. This entry is only for information and entertainment purposes.
This is one of the comments from Miserly Bastard
1. Own firearms, and know how to use them well. The Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Owneship have the right mindset. I distinctly remember my first trip to Gunsite, where I was taking their introductory 250 pistol course. A carbine course was simultaneously running, and it was the oddest sight to see this orthodox Jew eating his kosher meal at the lunch table, wearing BDUs, with an AR15/M4 carbine next to him. We jokingly called him "Benny the militant Jew", but I basically understand where that guy was coming from.
I am not disagreeing or agreeing with Miserly Bastard. I am just adding my perspective.
“Just buy a gun” is a response I often hear when the subject of self-defense comes up, however the decision to own a firearm is not to be taken lightly. The primary purpose of a firearm is to kill. Everything else is secondary. Therefore one must fully understand the responsibilities of owning a firearm and the use of deadly force.
If you make the decision to own a firearm, whether it is for home protection or for a hobby, I would recommend talking to 6 people before purchasing it. A defense lawyer, a prosecutor, a police officer, a judge and a doctor
1.Firearms expert
A firearms expert, preferably somebody certified from a reputable organization, will play a key role in providing you the proper information for purchasing and handling a gun. A fire arms instructor will not only teach you how to safely use a gun but also how to properly maintain it and keep it safe in your home. Through their tutelage you will learn about differences about between a 9mm and .45 caliber(One has less stopping power than other) and you will also learn about advantages and disadvantages of a revolver (it is simpler to use and has greater reliability however there is a limitation on how many rounds it can carry) and a semi-automatic pistol (carries more bullets, however reliability is in question depending on the model and how well it is maintained.)
It is imperative that you get proper training from a certified expert in order to prevent the following from occurring.
In a demented way it is rather humorous, however in retrospect an innocent person could have been wounded or killed in these incidents.
2.Police officer
If you discharge a weapon in self defense the first person that will be on the scene will be a police officer. It is imperative that you understand the role of the police officer in a shooting and the investigation process so that you will able to be prepared to properly interact with them.
From what little I do know about police procedure, so please don’t quote me on this, when police arrive on the scene of a shooting they will most likely have their weapons drawn and are going to secure the area to ensure the safety of civilians in the area and themselves. That means anyone with a gun and does not have a badge better do as they say if they want to live.
Sounds pretty harsh right? Actually from the police officer’s perspective it makes perfect sense. Police officers only get whatever information is available from dispatch so when they hear the word “shooting” upon arrival their primary obligation is to secure the area and to establish a safe zone. Initially they are not interested in what happened, they are just interested in ending the body count.
So even if you are involved in a justifiable use of deadly force, it is in the best interest of breathing to comply with whatever demands the police make and if it means being handcuffed and put in the back of a police car, so be it. Let them do their job to establish protective measures to ensure the safety of all involved. Upon completing that phase they will begin their investigation and will be able to determine what happened.
By talking to a police officer, you will be properly prepared to communicate them if you are put in a position where you need to use deadly force to protect yourself. The police officer will also give a very sobering perspective on the consequences of gun use because they are the first responders to these types of incidents and will be able to relay the realities of using a firearm on another human being due to their experiences.
3.Defense Lawyer
In my opinion it is better to talk to a defense lawyer before buying a gun rather than after you had to use in a self-defense situation because they will prepare you to deal with the legal consequences of using a firearm.
The defense lawyer will be able to prep you in what can and can’t do in terms of self-defense, they will also educate you in how to communicate to law enforcement authorities and how to protect yourself from making any incriminating statements
It is likely you will be sued, especially if the assailant is still alive and kicking after you have discharged your firearm. They may not be able to function properly so they will look to you to provide the proper care for them.
Berhard Goetz is an example of legal recourse taken by a criminal. Mind you, I am not condoning what he did, in fact even with the little knowledge I know about firearms I realize that he was very lucky he did not kill any innocent people that day. Even though Goetz got off with 8 months he was successfully sued by one of his assailants for $43 million, which he has not paid a dime.
The defense lawyer will provide the guidance you need to protect yourself during a civil trial and make recommendations of what legal measures you should take, like purchasing liability insurance.
4.The Prosecutor
Why would you want to talk this person? Because of you kill someone, even if is justifiable, a prosecutor will have to determine whether to charge you with a crime. Even if a shooting is justified, if you used an unlicensed firearm, it is most likely that they will prosecute you because you still broke the law.
5.The Judge
If you go to trial, this is the authority that will play a huge role in your fate especially if it is not a trial by jury. That courtroom is the judge’s domain and they can pretty much do what they please. By learning more about the judge and how they work, you will be better prepared in working with them. You do not want to work against a judge because if that happens then nothing is going to work in your favor.
6. The Doctor
I would recommend seeing two doctors. The first is a doctor that specializes in trauma particularly ballistic trauma AKA gunshot wounds. They will show you in graphic visual detail of what a bullet does to human tissue. From the trauma doctor you will learn terms like hydrostatic shock, assessment of severity, tension pneumothorax, exsanguination, hypoxia, acquired brain injury and paralysis.
If you are lucky the doctor will introduce you to patients who have survived or expired from these injuries and you can see up close what a bullet does to a human being.
Why pray tell would you subject yourself to a process that would make you vomit from even the thought of eating? Because this is what guns do. This is not Star Trek, you can’t set a .45 Smith and Wesson to stun, once you aim it at a human being and pull the trigger, that bullet will induce a tremendous amount of damage. And whether they survive it or not is up to God.
The second doctor you are going to need to speak to is a psychiatrist. Even if the courts find you legally justified in taking another human being's life, even if society tells you its okay even if your rabbi, clergyman, priest, guro says it's ok, if you are normal human being, it's not going to be okay with you.
Post traumatic stress disorder will make itself know in your daily life, even in your sleep. The somatic marker of that incident is going to be drilled in nice and tight in your memories.
Talking to a psychiatrist will give you an idea of what you will experience after shooting a weapon in self defense. Right now a high number of US soldiers are losing their battle in dealing with PTSD. These men and women are trained to fight and survive in combat situations and if they are having problems with PTSD you don’t think you will?
Now of course you can ignore what I said about firearms and cut to the chase and get yourself an equalizer. For your sake I hope you do it legally.
However, it is imperative that you need to know what your rights are in owning a firearm,when to exercise them and the implications of using them in order to avoid tragedies like the one that occurred in Long Island on August of 2006.
John White shooting of Daniel Cicciaro Jr. If you want full details of what happened go to this link.
This is a simplified version of the events that led to that shooting: John White’s son was at a party when someone accused him of acting in an improper fashion to one of the girls. Adding more tension was that the girl's brother was also present. John White's son wisely left the party while a group of boys including the brother of the girl, unwisely followed him home.
When his son arrived at home and alerted his dad of the situation, his father's response was to arm both his son and himself with firearms. At one point he walked out of his house and ordered the group to leave. Daniel Cicciaro Jr lunged for the gun, which was an unlicensed, a struggle ensued and the gun went off killing Daniel Cicciaro Jr.
The whole thing is a horrible tragedy and I believe that if Mr. White had taken certain measures it could have been avoided or at least Mr. White would not face any legal trouble.
What he should have done was call the police, whipped out the video camera and recorded the racist rants of these douchebags and make sure that 911 was still on the line so that there could be an audio record of the incident. As soon as the cops arrive, burn a video copy for them and have the kids arrested.
Every lawyer in America that is licensed to practice in New York would be busting down his door to represent him and he would have been able to sue the families involved back into the stone age. No one would have been killed and Mr. White would have been able to retire from the settlement and send his son to Harvard.
Now if it had gotten to the point that these douchebags initiated a breach that would put Mr. White and his family or his property in harm’s way, yhen Mr. White would be justified in the use of deadly force through the Castle Doctrine. (Please consult a lawyer regarding this law because it varies from state to state.) In other words if this group had gained unlawful entry into his home then Mr. White would have every right to neutralize the threat with a licensed firearm.
Mr. White was convicted however he received a suspended sentence, despite that being free you can tell from the pictures below that this is a man with a very heavy heart. His family has also been deeply affected. The community he lives in is further polarized and Mr. Diciaioro is without a son.
Now before some of you start screaming that I am some bleeding heart liberal and that I am an agent of the new world order out to use propaganda to disarm red blooded Americans, I would like to present these two stories about firearms.
There is a story I once read about Pearl Harbor when the Japanese were planning their attack. At one point they were considering launching an invasion into California after Pearl Harbor but the idea was quickly vetoed because their research indicated that every 2nd home in California had at least one rifle. The Japanese Imperial Army would no doubt face strong resistance.
From that same article I learned of some interesting facts regarding Switzerland during World War II. Even though Switzerland was neutral throughout World War II, Hitler was actually considering invading it just for the hell of it but it was pointed out to him that although the Swiss seemed like a bunch of wussies, the majority of the population were part of a militia and even those who retired from the militia would still be armed. And because of the unforgiving weather and terrain, the Swiss were known to have 6 months of supplies stocked up for emergencies. In words combined with the harsh environment and the weapons and training of the Swiss militia, the Nazis would be facing a quagmire. So Hitler abstained from invading the Alps.
I am not taking sides here folks. When I say the primary function of a firearm is to kill, I am not passing judgment or demonizing them, I am saying that is their function. As those stories have demonstrated, I am very well aware that firearms, when utilized properly, can have a strong deterrent effect against certain evils in the world but they can also the cause of great tragedies. I am just making every effort to present the implications of owning and using a firearm in self-defense. The action of pulling a trigger on a human being is quite simple. The consequences are far more complicated. If you are not properly prepared to deal with those consequences, it will be devastating not only to yourself but your family, loved ones and innocent people.
This is one of the comments from Miserly Bastard
1. Own firearms, and know how to use them well. The Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Owneship have the right mindset. I distinctly remember my first trip to Gunsite, where I was taking their introductory 250 pistol course. A carbine course was simultaneously running, and it was the oddest sight to see this orthodox Jew eating his kosher meal at the lunch table, wearing BDUs, with an AR15/M4 carbine next to him. We jokingly called him "Benny the militant Jew", but I basically understand where that guy was coming from.
I am not disagreeing or agreeing with Miserly Bastard. I am just adding my perspective.
“Just buy a gun” is a response I often hear when the subject of self-defense comes up, however the decision to own a firearm is not to be taken lightly. The primary purpose of a firearm is to kill. Everything else is secondary. Therefore one must fully understand the responsibilities of owning a firearm and the use of deadly force.
If you make the decision to own a firearm, whether it is for home protection or for a hobby, I would recommend talking to 6 people before purchasing it. A defense lawyer, a prosecutor, a police officer, a judge and a doctor
1.Firearms expert
A firearms expert, preferably somebody certified from a reputable organization, will play a key role in providing you the proper information for purchasing and handling a gun. A fire arms instructor will not only teach you how to safely use a gun but also how to properly maintain it and keep it safe in your home. Through their tutelage you will learn about differences about between a 9mm and .45 caliber(One has less stopping power than other) and you will also learn about advantages and disadvantages of a revolver (it is simpler to use and has greater reliability however there is a limitation on how many rounds it can carry) and a semi-automatic pistol (carries more bullets, however reliability is in question depending on the model and how well it is maintained.)
It is imperative that you get proper training from a certified expert in order to prevent the following from occurring.
In a demented way it is rather humorous, however in retrospect an innocent person could have been wounded or killed in these incidents.
2.Police officer
If you discharge a weapon in self defense the first person that will be on the scene will be a police officer. It is imperative that you understand the role of the police officer in a shooting and the investigation process so that you will able to be prepared to properly interact with them.
From what little I do know about police procedure, so please don’t quote me on this, when police arrive on the scene of a shooting they will most likely have their weapons drawn and are going to secure the area to ensure the safety of civilians in the area and themselves. That means anyone with a gun and does not have a badge better do as they say if they want to live.
Sounds pretty harsh right? Actually from the police officer’s perspective it makes perfect sense. Police officers only get whatever information is available from dispatch so when they hear the word “shooting” upon arrival their primary obligation is to secure the area and to establish a safe zone. Initially they are not interested in what happened, they are just interested in ending the body count.
So even if you are involved in a justifiable use of deadly force, it is in the best interest of breathing to comply with whatever demands the police make and if it means being handcuffed and put in the back of a police car, so be it. Let them do their job to establish protective measures to ensure the safety of all involved. Upon completing that phase they will begin their investigation and will be able to determine what happened.
By talking to a police officer, you will be properly prepared to communicate them if you are put in a position where you need to use deadly force to protect yourself. The police officer will also give a very sobering perspective on the consequences of gun use because they are the first responders to these types of incidents and will be able to relay the realities of using a firearm on another human being due to their experiences.
3.Defense Lawyer
In my opinion it is better to talk to a defense lawyer before buying a gun rather than after you had to use in a self-defense situation because they will prepare you to deal with the legal consequences of using a firearm.
The defense lawyer will be able to prep you in what can and can’t do in terms of self-defense, they will also educate you in how to communicate to law enforcement authorities and how to protect yourself from making any incriminating statements
It is likely you will be sued, especially if the assailant is still alive and kicking after you have discharged your firearm. They may not be able to function properly so they will look to you to provide the proper care for them.
Berhard Goetz is an example of legal recourse taken by a criminal. Mind you, I am not condoning what he did, in fact even with the little knowledge I know about firearms I realize that he was very lucky he did not kill any innocent people that day. Even though Goetz got off with 8 months he was successfully sued by one of his assailants for $43 million, which he has not paid a dime.
The defense lawyer will provide the guidance you need to protect yourself during a civil trial and make recommendations of what legal measures you should take, like purchasing liability insurance.
4.The Prosecutor
Why would you want to talk this person? Because of you kill someone, even if is justifiable, a prosecutor will have to determine whether to charge you with a crime. Even if a shooting is justified, if you used an unlicensed firearm, it is most likely that they will prosecute you because you still broke the law.
5.The Judge
If you go to trial, this is the authority that will play a huge role in your fate especially if it is not a trial by jury. That courtroom is the judge’s domain and they can pretty much do what they please. By learning more about the judge and how they work, you will be better prepared in working with them. You do not want to work against a judge because if that happens then nothing is going to work in your favor.
6. The Doctor
I would recommend seeing two doctors. The first is a doctor that specializes in trauma particularly ballistic trauma AKA gunshot wounds. They will show you in graphic visual detail of what a bullet does to human tissue. From the trauma doctor you will learn terms like hydrostatic shock, assessment of severity, tension pneumothorax, exsanguination, hypoxia, acquired brain injury and paralysis.
If you are lucky the doctor will introduce you to patients who have survived or expired from these injuries and you can see up close what a bullet does to a human being.
Why pray tell would you subject yourself to a process that would make you vomit from even the thought of eating? Because this is what guns do. This is not Star Trek, you can’t set a .45 Smith and Wesson to stun, once you aim it at a human being and pull the trigger, that bullet will induce a tremendous amount of damage. And whether they survive it or not is up to God.
The second doctor you are going to need to speak to is a psychiatrist. Even if the courts find you legally justified in taking another human being's life, even if society tells you its okay even if your rabbi, clergyman, priest, guro says it's ok, if you are normal human being, it's not going to be okay with you.
Post traumatic stress disorder will make itself know in your daily life, even in your sleep. The somatic marker of that incident is going to be drilled in nice and tight in your memories.
Talking to a psychiatrist will give you an idea of what you will experience after shooting a weapon in self defense. Right now a high number of US soldiers are losing their battle in dealing with PTSD. These men and women are trained to fight and survive in combat situations and if they are having problems with PTSD you don’t think you will?
Now of course you can ignore what I said about firearms and cut to the chase and get yourself an equalizer. For your sake I hope you do it legally.
However, it is imperative that you need to know what your rights are in owning a firearm,when to exercise them and the implications of using them in order to avoid tragedies like the one that occurred in Long Island on August of 2006.
John White shooting of Daniel Cicciaro Jr. If you want full details of what happened go to this link.
This is a simplified version of the events that led to that shooting: John White’s son was at a party when someone accused him of acting in an improper fashion to one of the girls. Adding more tension was that the girl's brother was also present. John White's son wisely left the party while a group of boys including the brother of the girl, unwisely followed him home.
When his son arrived at home and alerted his dad of the situation, his father's response was to arm both his son and himself with firearms. At one point he walked out of his house and ordered the group to leave. Daniel Cicciaro Jr lunged for the gun, which was an unlicensed, a struggle ensued and the gun went off killing Daniel Cicciaro Jr.
The whole thing is a horrible tragedy and I believe that if Mr. White had taken certain measures it could have been avoided or at least Mr. White would not face any legal trouble.
What he should have done was call the police, whipped out the video camera and recorded the racist rants of these douchebags and make sure that 911 was still on the line so that there could be an audio record of the incident. As soon as the cops arrive, burn a video copy for them and have the kids arrested.
Every lawyer in America that is licensed to practice in New York would be busting down his door to represent him and he would have been able to sue the families involved back into the stone age. No one would have been killed and Mr. White would have been able to retire from the settlement and send his son to Harvard.
Now if it had gotten to the point that these douchebags initiated a breach that would put Mr. White and his family or his property in harm’s way, yhen Mr. White would be justified in the use of deadly force through the Castle Doctrine. (Please consult a lawyer regarding this law because it varies from state to state.) In other words if this group had gained unlawful entry into his home then Mr. White would have every right to neutralize the threat with a licensed firearm.
Mr. White was convicted however he received a suspended sentence, despite that being free you can tell from the pictures below that this is a man with a very heavy heart. His family has also been deeply affected. The community he lives in is further polarized and Mr. Diciaioro is without a son.
Now before some of you start screaming that I am some bleeding heart liberal and that I am an agent of the new world order out to use propaganda to disarm red blooded Americans, I would like to present these two stories about firearms.
There is a story I once read about Pearl Harbor when the Japanese were planning their attack. At one point they were considering launching an invasion into California after Pearl Harbor but the idea was quickly vetoed because their research indicated that every 2nd home in California had at least one rifle. The Japanese Imperial Army would no doubt face strong resistance.
From that same article I learned of some interesting facts regarding Switzerland during World War II. Even though Switzerland was neutral throughout World War II, Hitler was actually considering invading it just for the hell of it but it was pointed out to him that although the Swiss seemed like a bunch of wussies, the majority of the population were part of a militia and even those who retired from the militia would still be armed. And because of the unforgiving weather and terrain, the Swiss were known to have 6 months of supplies stocked up for emergencies. In words combined with the harsh environment and the weapons and training of the Swiss militia, the Nazis would be facing a quagmire. So Hitler abstained from invading the Alps.
I am not taking sides here folks. When I say the primary function of a firearm is to kill, I am not passing judgment or demonizing them, I am saying that is their function. As those stories have demonstrated, I am very well aware that firearms, when utilized properly, can have a strong deterrent effect against certain evils in the world but they can also the cause of great tragedies. I am just making every effort to present the implications of owning and using a firearm in self-defense. The action of pulling a trigger on a human being is quite simple. The consequences are far more complicated. If you are not properly prepared to deal with those consequences, it will be devastating not only to yourself but your family, loved ones and innocent people.
posted by Grunt at
8:00 AM
