Property Grunt

Wednesday, January 28, 2009

I Love You Man!

Miserly Bastard,

Thank you for your response. I appreciate what you said and I hope you can appreciate what I have to say too.

No offense, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you have bothered reading my posted, I stated upfront about my lack of knowledge in the field of firearms, self-defense and law and I made it abundantly clear that this was just my opinion.

Your comments about caliber choice, for example, demonstrate your ignorance about guns; the single most important factor in "stopping power" is shot placement--which equates to operator skill. All else is secondary.

You are correct. I am ignorant about guns which is why I have personally consulted with people who are experienced in firearms which includes people in the military and law enforcement. These are their words, not mine.

The decision to buy a gun is far easier than the liberal hand-wringing you prescribe.

It is not the decision I am talking about. It is the aftermath of using a firearm.

1. Buy a gun because the police cannot protect you or your family, in your moment of greatest need, and because a firearm is the single most effective means of employing lethal force in self-defense. I pointedly note that your list of people to talk to omitted, say, "the woman who was repeatedly raped while waiting for 911 to come" or "the family of the girl who was killed by the stalking ex-boyfriend."

I want to clarify that the point my entry was not about why or why you should not buy a gun but what the implications and consequences of using one are.

As for this sentence.

I pointedly note that your list of people to talk to omitted, say, "the woman who was repeatedly raped while waiting for 911 to come" or "the family of the girl who was killed by the stalking ex-boyfriend."

You are intentionally utilizing an emotionally hijacking statement in order to cover up the fact your argument that has nothing to do with have I stated. Regardless of whether a person has used a gun to deter a rapist or a stalking ex-boyfriend, that person is going be dealing with police officers, lawyers and doctors.

The people I list are the ones you should talk to in order because they will be the ones you will most likely interact after using a gun in self defensive situation so it is best to be familiar with them before hand.

2. If you buy a gun, get trained on gunhandling, tactics, and deadly force law, from a reputable shooting school such as Gunsite or Thunder Ranch. The law of deadly force is very simple: you must be in reasonable fear of imminent bodily harm or death, or be acting to protect an innocent third-party from the same. It's not a hard concept.

3. Finally, commit to yourself that having a gun (and the knowledge to use it), is no substitute for good judgment. In other words, even though you own/carry a gun (or perhaps BECAUSE you own/carry a gun), you must strive to avoid doing stupid things, going to stupid places, and hanging out with stupid people.

It's really that simple.

No. It is not.

I do concur that gun training is essential for anyone who own a gun in order to use it and maintain it properly, however that is only half the battle. Any gun owner worth their salt needs to understand the laws of their state pertaining to use of deadly force.

As I said before, I am not a lawyer, but it would not surprise me if some if not all states have different criteria for what it means to be have a reasonable fear of imminent bodily harm or death, or be acting to protect an innocent third-party from the same.

That is why it is imperative that all gun owners should not only educate themselves on these laws but also how they are enforced so they do not end up getting in a legal quagmire.

Remember Mr. White? From what I have read of what occurred that night he must have been scared as all hell when being one of the few black families in town that is suddenly confronted by a gang of white youths who have bad intentions for his son. I am sure he felt that he was acting to protect his son. However because those teens were outside of his home and had not gained unlawfully entry into his home is why he was convicted. However, it would not surprise me that if this situation occurred in another state, Mr. White would have never been charged.

Just re-reading your post amazes me at naive you are.

You would have people think about all of the amorphous legal consequences (e.g., grand jury investigation, dealing with first responders, etc.) and pseudo-psychological consequences (e.g. PTSD) following a shooting, and none at all about actual survival.

Newsflash: in order to worry about the second order consequences you name, you first have to survive. This is why you buy a gun

Awhile back I was having a discussion about self-defense with my martial arts teacher, I asked him about the issue of getting sued after defending yourself from an attacker. His response was simple. If you are attacked, let yourself get killed, that way you won’t have to worry about getting sued since you will be dead.

The point of that statement from my teacher was the last thing you want to think about are lawsuits when your only focus should be dealing with the situation at hand if you are attacked. When faced with a life and death decision you must be completely focused on whatever you are doing to ensure your survival.

However if you survive after using a firearm in self defense, the ordeal is not over. The legal system in our counter is designed to ensure that the justifiable use of deadly force is deemed justifiable. That means all participants are going to go through the entire situation with a fine tooth comb. And there may be others who attempt profit from the situation at your expense.

Wouldn't it best to know what your rights are after a self defense situation when facing a police officer? Wouldn't you want to train yourself to prevent yourself in making statements that could be construed as incriminating? Wouldn't it be a good idea to talk to a lawyer in determining how to protect your assets from an attacker or attacker's family if they try to sue you? These are the types of issues you want to deal with sothat you do not have to be distracted by them if you are ever in a position to defend yourself.

Your post is also riddled with errors and canards, such as "semi-automatics are not as reliable as revolvers," or ".45s have more stopping power than 9mms" or "you will be traumatized and guilty after a shooting."

These statements are either flatly incorrect, or gross overgeneralizations. Modern semiautomatics like Glocks are clearly the gun of choice; caliber selection has far less importance than training, and merely perpetuates the myth that "gear matters"; and many people--including a number that I know well--have been involved in righteous shooting w/out any adverse psychological consequence.

I do stand by the statement regarding revolvers and semiautomatics. I once did a ride along with a police officer that told me that you could put his .38 revolver in a bucket of syrup and it would still work but you would not dare do that with a semiautomatic pistol.

As for your statement that “Glocks are clearly the gun of choice;”, for a person who prides themselves on their expertise of firearms, you should know that picking a weapon is all about personal choice. Some people prefer a Walther P22 and others of fans of the M9.

Whether done in self defense or otherwise taking a human beings life is not a happy occasion. A person taking another person’s life it is going to have an emotional impact on their mental state. I have a relative who did a stint in the military. At one point during his tour of duty he served under a man who had a special forces background. He admitted to my relative he still had to deal with the occasional nightmare due to his experiences.

This is a man who put his life on the line for God and Country. It is because of people like him that we are able to live freely in this great country. Unfortunately, the price he has to pay is dealing with the memories of getting rid of all those tangos.

If men of his level have to deal with these issues, it is highly likely that the average human being has to deal with them too.

You really should stick to blogging about real estate.

Unfortunately guns have a lot to do with real estate. Especially people now stocking up in fear of things to come.

I have to say I am very surprised by your reaction Miserly. It is quite obvious that I am not anti or pro gun. All I am presenting is my opinion on how people should educate themselves when buying a gun.